What's it like to be the poorest kid in an affluent setting?
Here's the dilemma: A couple are worried about moving to a place where they will have less money than nearly everyone else in the community.
They're concerned that the kids won't grasp the tradeoffs the parents have made (reaching for a better school district in the US) and will only see the things they lack.
New York Times columnist Ron Lieber thinks it could be the other way around. He wonders whether kids turn out better somehow if they have a bit less (but maybe not a lot less) than everyone else.
I'm not sure, but I guess it's all about the size of the gap. Poor kids can't keep up with rich kids given the differential resources each have access to, and the most significant difference is often centred around school.
Some of Lieber's readers felt that “being the poorest teenager in the school is probably a recipe for unhappiness,” while others thought the adults were projecting their own worries on the children.
What do you think?
By Gordon Powers, MSN Money
Posted by: June R Massoud | Jul 18, 2021 1:09:33 AM
Rich schools do not necessarily produce brilliant minds. Poor and middle class kids can sometimes be super brilliant and superior in intelligence to rich kids. The concept of the affluent school is pervasive in America. That's what makes America's education system toxic. The real education needs to be available to everyone. Now such is possible through the internet, although in the past, such was possible through libraries and poor kids studying hard and being self taught. One of my friends and I both graduated Summa Cum Laude from a Catholic high school, but both of us got rejected at McGill University's Faculty of Engineering in 1983 when we applied there. The logic is, that we didn't get top grades in Cegep, which in my opinion is a bullshit royal joke of an institution, designed to make superior intelligence children and youth fail. Now how do you explain that?
Posted by: Angel Thonson | Jul 18, 2021 2:43:47 AM
I happened to have lived in an affluent area/school, but I was in the lower income bracket and although it was nice having all of programs/classes available at the school, it was hard to be accepted, socially as well as academically because I didn't have the things they had at had like a home computer so which most of the other kids had and the teachers expected assignment to be done on. My case may have been isolated or at least it seemed that way to me at the time, there are other examples but that one pops into my head right off the bat, I also found I got teased for not wearing the right clothes ( or at least what everyone else was wearing), for some people it doesn't matter, the clothing one didn't matter to me as I had my own style lol and didn't give a hoot, the whole computer thing where the teachers and students treat you like crap cause you don't own one and it effects your grades that when I get upset. ( this was in the mid 90's when computers were still a little pricey) Funny thing is none of the kids in my graduating class have gone on to do anything worthwile, wait one was arrested for embezzlement lol ( gotta love rich idiots)
Posted by: Dave Jones | Jul 18, 2021 2:47:00 AM
I guess you can presume any advantage or disadvantage but kids want the same as their friends. It is a relative comment until there is an income discrepancy and then the richer kids, who have not yet learned the difference between money and value, will under-value any of their peers with less.
Posted by: Tami S | Jul 18, 2021 4:01:02 AM
I don't need to imagine this scenario - I've lived it! Advice to the parents - DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!! I grew up as the poorest kid in a rich neighbourhood (one of Canada's wealthiest). Went to a High School where some of the kids got Porche's for their 16th birthday (yes a used Porche, but still a Porche!) My experience was HORRIBLE! I was bullied beyond belief as the kid with the parents who didn't "fit in". My Mother was a hairdresser who'd given up work when I was born (and dressed herself, and us, in second-hand clothes because that's all she could afford). My Father was a blue-collar worker with a Grade 9 education. How did we end up there? Because my Mother's parents had had the good fortune to build a house in the neighbourhood before it became exclusive. Were my parents' perceived failings reflected on me? ABSOLUTELY! I was treated like trash. Don't be as worried about what your child will feel that they lack - be more worried about how the other children will treat them! Trust me, it is an absolutely awful way to grow up. What did I think of the "rich kids"? I thought they were over-entitled little brats for the most part, but some were decent human-beings. My experience gave me one thing - a drive to do better than they did in life so that I could turn around and say UP YOURS at the High School reunion. Was it worth going through years of hell to develop that "drive" - not for a moment! Good schools don't make successful children - successful children do. Find a school which is prepared to work with and support your child, it doesn't need to be a posh one, just one which cares. Avoid being suckered in by the lie that schools in rich areas are better. My school knowingly allowed my bullying to continue - including verbal and physical abuse - in the full view of teachers and administration at points.... remember - those parents who "donate generously" to the school are unlikely to find themselves being hauled in to be reprimanded for the behaviour of their children..... jus' sayin' !
Posted by: Kelly | Jul 18, 2021 8:15:14 AM
It’s a good and bad thing.
My parents scarified so much in order to send my sister and I to a private school in a wealthy neighbourhood. They believed the education was better than the public schools. Not only were my sister and I the only black students in the school, but we were also in the lower income bracket. My class mates went on extravagant holidays every long weekend and during summers. And for their 16th birthdays they received luxury cars or expensive jewellery. They had beautiful large homes and their mothers stayed home while having nannies and private chefs.
It became hard to keep up when they wanted to go out every weekend, but I must say I learnt a lot. I saw what I wanted for myself in the future and I was able to learn about the mindsets of the wealthy. Their parents are hard workers and were smart with money and their investments. I was able to network and embody some characteristics that wealthy people possess.
I won’t say my family was poor, but it helped that my mother constantly reminded us that on a larger scale and compared to the majority of the population we still very privileged.
So in all, I would say I am grateful for having gone through the experience. Like they say, surround yourself with what you would like to become. And that’s what my parents tried to do for me and my sister.
Posted by: Patty | Jul 18, 2021 8:32:50 AM
This is my life; we aren't the poorest per say, but all my 14 year old daughter's friends get new clothes weekly, have tv/ipads/money to do all they want and my daughter thinks she is the long lost Kardashian sister. They want to keep up with the girls who have everything, go on trips 3-4 times per year and buy 600-1000 dresses for great eight grades. And I don't want to hear, "well, you're the mother...." I get it, and there in lies the head butting as we try to teach her that things aren't important compared to family and friendship. She was embarrassed that we used to drive a 10 year old, slightly rusting 2002 windstar mini wan. Now, we upgraded to a new 2013 Dodge Journey and she doesn't understand why we don't drive a Lexus, Audi or a Porsche. I also get black because I don't have Michael Kors/Coach/Fendi purse, like all the other 'Woodbridge' moms. Good times. She definitely feels hard done by.
Posted by: Jay | Jul 18, 2021 9:10:36 AM
Teenagers are horrible, judgemental, materialstic fools and are too immature to see beyond that. We all remember Pretty in Pink.......unfortunately that is real life; our children are segregated based on their looks, style, and financial status. As much as we'd like them to be more focused on getting the best education possible and find the inner beauty in a person it isn't going to happen, as teenagers we didn't. They are too immature right now to see what really matters in life and hopefully the morals and values we teach them will eventually help them to become the sincere, compassionate people we wish them to be. For now, we have to accept that some things in life will never change, and throwing your teenager into an environment where they are not the "norm" is no a good idea. The best school isn't always in the "richest" neighbourhood; perhaps it's in the "poorest" where students who don't have all the material things in life. Success starts from within!
Posted by: Carrie | Jul 18, 2021 9:24:38 AM
I've lived both sides of this coin. My parents did extremely well at their businesses, but it meant that they didn't have a lot of time for us. They compensated with a full-time nanny, go cart, snow mobile, dirt bikes, atv, many exotic trips as a family and far more trips for themselves.When I was 14, the divorce happened, and the lawyers took everything. We didn't have enough money to buy toothpaste, shoes and food. My Mom still had to work lots for minimum wage, but at least we were old enough to take care of ourselves. The bad news was that my friends evaporated, and not a single kid showed up to my 16th birthday party. The good news is that it created the drive I needed to be very successful. Luckily, I went to a very good school, but it meant that I had 4hrs of English homework per night (not including physics, French literature, and Calculus) in grade 12. I can't be entirely sure where my life of entitlement would have taken me if my parents had never divorced, but the lessons I learned post divorce were how to be frugal and budget for things and to work hard for an education because no one can take my education away from me. Even though I do not reflect back upon my teenage years in a tough school with nostalgia, I am grateful for having the opportunity to be at a school where I could toil towards my goals. I do plan to put my kids in the best private school that I can, and perhaps they'll squander the opportunity, but at least I'm giving them a chance to be challenged hard enough to choose to swim (in other words, reach for the stars, and if you fail, you'll still have made it to the moon).
Posted by: Been there | Jul 18, 2021 9:27:59 AM
I'm happy to read the stories where the experience was good. Mine certainly was. Our family moved from being somewhere in the middle, financially, of a very good area of a smaller city, to a very affluent area of the Toronto suburbs. We were fortunate enough to be able to go to school in the "good" area, even though we were, technically, out of district.
I had heard stories about the "snobs" at the school we were about to attend. I never met them. What I did encounter were kind, social, fun, accepting friends who happened to be the children of bank CEOs, sports team GMs, company owners and even a couple of pro athletes. They lived in massive houses, some on the lake, and had been raised well. Sure, there were the usual rivalries with other schools, accentuated by obvious socio-economic differences; but where does that not exist? We still ended up at the same parties and universities. We were conscious of keeping the comments on the field or court-side...never beyond that.
To this day, I still keep in touch with those people, despite gaps in geography, economy and family situations. People who look for a problem will find it. People who expect to find a community, will always find one.
To the people wondering if this is a good idea - yes, with the right attitude. If you feel different, you will be perceived that way. If you recognize that you've earned your way into the best situation you can achieve, that will shine through.
I wish you the best of luck!
Posted by: jem | Jul 18, 2021 9:59:26 AM
My parents decided to send me to a middle school in our city's affluent neighborhood. It was a difficult adjustment. Many of the kids would critique my non-designer clothing & area that I lived in. They had fancy vacations, cars & clothing. I felt sad & isolated.
I eventually surrounded myself with peers who were open minded & creative. I learned how to use my funny personality, creative style & charm. In the end I learned how to navigate many social paths. I built a solid network. That experience was brutal, but taught me how to excel in a diverse society. I've lived in many cities. I have phenomenal social skills. People of varying social & cultural backgrounds now gravitate towards me.
Posted by: poor vs rich | Jul 18, 2021 10:04:36 AM
ok people, this doesnt make sense at all.
poor and rich dont hang out together except when the rich people go on down to the homeless shelter and give themselves an ego trip and false sense of them having a soul. its sort of like a bunch of hail marys that catholics say after the sodomy ends. off topic sorry.
the poor and rich dont mingle because they are of different everything, it has nothing to do with socail stature or any of that hog wash. one group struggles to eat and live and the other group hordes there money and feeds themselves caviar and fine food and then goes to church to get a pat on the back and a feel good message from the preacher who psychologically manipulates them into thinking they are going to heaven even though they do none of the things jesus tells them to do.
get real, this is a bad idea going to the rich peoples school , they might take the poor persons lunch because its in there nature to take from the poor.
what is the motivation of the parents to do this, it sounds like the parents need some serious parenting classes and get a grip on reality, by hanging out with rich people they are not going to be able to become rich, thats impossible because rich people are greedy and manipulative, its more likely the rich people will just take whatever the poor people have and make them even poorer.
Posted by: joannah s | Jul 18, 2021 10:07:07 AM
I think its up to the parents and the lifestyle they choose for their family. Needs and wants are two different things. If the parents are consumers with an insatiable appetite for consumer goods, then that will be passed on to their children, or if they are sensible, using consumer common sense, then that virtue will also be carried on. I think its all in the way the parents see themselves, and behave accordingly.
Posted by: poor vs rich | Jul 18, 2021 10:31:45 AM
being rich isnt about having alot of money. Please read the other peoples post above, especially Tami S's post, classic. Also read the one about driving a brand new dodge journey, a nicely appointed modest vehicle, and the teenager wonders why they dont drive porsches and lexuses. hahahaha classic.
The cards are setup to fall the wrong way.
Any parent who thinks that there kids will get a better education at a rich persons school is very deluded.
There could be many many many many many different reasons the parents want to do this, and im geussing 99% of them bad. these parents need psychological evaluations and to be talked to by a few good psychologists to figure out there motives. and not Dr Phil hahahahaha Dr Phil dont even get me started on that dude.
These parents need to read the ten commandments and start living by them and start reading there bible book.
amen.
Posted by: been there | Jul 18, 2021 11:45:11 AM
@poor vs rich - I'm guessing you haven't spent much time really getting to know any rich people. Your experience with them has probably been in passing and probably not on a social level. Here's a little education, from someone who lives in both worlds (my husband is from a lower-income home/neighbourhood and I'm from a well-off family). I have to listen to constant criticism of "rich people" (who, in this case, could be anyone with a household income of more than $150,000/yr), from people who have the biggest chips on their shoulders about "them".
Here's the thing: they don't actually know any rich people. They just see a lot of people who have things they don't have. Instead of having an open mind, they immediately associate wealth with evil. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I find wealthy people to be more open and accepting than those with lower incomes; they both want the best for their children, want fair treatment and know that they will always have more than some and less than others. They are all thankful for good health, grieve loss the same way and can find joy in even the smallest things. It's all just on a relative scale.
Of course, those who criticize the rich rarely look in the mirror and ask the following questions: what do I give to people who have less than me? How many people do I, personally, employ? How much of my income do I give to charity/church? How much time do I spend thinking about people who have less than me, and what do I do about it?
While I believe people should be good, just because, I also think people need to spend more time thinking about those people with less than themselves...and there is ALWAYS someone.
As for the "better school district, better school" issue, here's the difference: in areas with higher incomes, there tends to be more value placed on education, by parents who see the results of a good education. Thus, the schools can attract better teachers, students are less likely to be bullied for being smart, and issues like spelling can be addressed, early.
Posted by: Charlie | Jul 18, 2021 12:16:42 PM
I am one of the kids described in the piece. I'm an 18 year old living in the affluent Toronto neighbourhood of Leaside. While all my friends live in 4 and 5 bedroom houses, I'm stuck in my quaint little apartment above a salon. Only my mom has a full time job in my family, and she makes far less than the other mothers and fathers in the community.
I'd hate to brag but I must agree with Ron Lieber. Out of all my richer friends, I was the first one to pursue an instrument, acquire a part-time job, and complete my mandatory community service hours required for graduation. Next year I'll be heading back to my roots and attending university in Scotland, while my fellow graduates are joining all the usual suspects (Glendon, Queens, Western). I personally believe being at a financial disadvantage has helped my development greatly, and I have been less exposed to the famous Leaside bubble that plagues its young residents so greatly. I think Lieber may be on to something here.
Posted by: Steve | Jul 18, 2021 2:12:04 PM
I was financially disadvantaged as a kid, felt it drove me to succeed. I learned that both family values and focused quality time is much more valuable than crap that ends up in the garbage dump. Teaching that to my kids too.
I'm in the opposite spectrum, a doctor, trained at Harvard, very successful career, make excellent money and well off but live off of ~$40K/yr in a poor neighborhood out of choice. A painting on my wall is worth more than 10 month's rent in the neighborhood. Kids think I'm poor - but they will never lack for anything important. I teach value in quality not quantity, clothes included. I would gladly buy them 1 pair of shoes for $200 rather than 5 pair of $40 shoes. I teach them that because money is precious to respect and seek out craftsmanship and REAL quality not brand name "quality" . If they want something more than the basics I provide... they need to earn it.
Growing up it was VERY easy for me to deal with the friends driving new fancy cars given to them from parents when I was driving the old rusty clunker that I bought. Pride and drive to succeed was created by that experience - and how I measured success also changed. If someone lives a life made possible only by contributions from their parents... not my idea of personal success.
Posted by: poor vs rich | Jul 18, 2021 10:59:03 PM
@been there, you geuss wrongly, ive spent considerable time with rich millionaires and worked for a few as well. ive grown up very rich and i know what most rich people are like when it comes to money. why do you think that jesus says to the rich young ruler he cant buy his way into the kingdom? why does jesus say give to caeser what is caesars? the point is this, that riches show where your heart is at, there is no reason for rich people to have multiple vehicles live in fancy mansions and eat caviar when the world around them is falling apart, people cant even afford to keep living while some guy has a trophy wife no kids and spends his time on the golf course and he is determining the future of many meager poor peoples ultimate earthly destinies, for every overindulgence you see rich people taking there is some family suffering with malnourishment, mental illness, poverty, disease, etc etc that could be calmed with the distribution of wealth. in case you havent noticed the decks stacked one way and no amount of brainwashing by rich people will ever change the fact that money is the determining factor in what kind of existence people have. i really like those sermons where they say dont give money to a homeless man he is just gonna drink it away. when its written write in the bible that alcohol is for the dieing man, check out proverbs 31:6 'Let beer be for those who are perishing, wine for those who are in anguish' . these church richies use any excuse to keep there money. there is nothing wrong with giving a dieing homeless man a bunch of alcohol thats one of the only pleasures they have in life yet rich church folk act like they are going to sober him up and turn him into an electrician, hahahahaha what a joke. in the end god does the judgment at the white throne and casts a bunch of richies into the lake of fire and says depart from me i never knew you, while the alcoholic hopeless man goes to a mansion paved with gold and if the lights dont work he can and will be able to rewire the lights when they stop working thanks to his electrician courses that the rich people provided him while swigging on a bottle of JD and singing praise and worship to god alone. think about it.
Posted by: poor vs rich | Jul 18, 2021 11:32:33 PM
yes i am aware i used the wrong verbiage when i used the word write instead of right, thanks for noticing, your advanced spelling classes and grammar are a force to be reckoned with